Wondering if it is time for that serious talk with grandma? Listen to a Certified Senior Advisor who is also certified in Dementia Care. Michelle Malais has the experience and training to help you navigate senior transitions or even make your own plans rather than leaving it up to someone else.
Check out her Facebook page and website.
https://www.facebook.com/ALLNorthSL
https://assistedlivinglocators.com/care-advisor/north-salt-lake
Emmalou Penrod 0:00
Today I’m talking to Michelle Malais. And she is a certified Senior Advisor. And she’s also certified in dementia care. Michelle, welcome.
Michelle Malais 0:10
Thank you so much for having me here today. Emmalou. I really appreciate that.
Emmalou Penrod 0:14
So how did you come to be involved in senior care?
Michelle Malais 0:19
Well, it all started actually, when my mother became ill with dementia. And I realized that my parents were struggling. They lived in a different state. It was a very hard situation, because I saw from a distance when I would call my mother and my dad. I would hear in my mom’s voice or demeanor or language, when she was trying to talk to me, I could hear the difference in how my mom was able to speak with me. And I could see that she was getting worse. And my father was in denial. As a matter of fact, my father ended up subtly doing and answering all of her all of the questions that were asked of her. So I noticed that my dad was really protecting my mom. It was important to him that she wasn’t getting, that there was nothing wrong with her. So I saw this happening over a period of about four years. There was a point in time where I started to talk to my dad, about, you know, possibly finding a place for my mom, where she could go to be taken care of, and to give him a rest. Because he became this man who went from being a very patriarch, type of man, taking care of his wife, taking care of all of the bills, taking care of the all of the household, manly chores, to becoming the cook, and doing the laundry, and taking care of my mom, all the while becoming agitated. And he didn’t really understand that he was becoming agitated and irritated. And I see commercials on television, for say, like A Place for Mom. And I realized, with my own experience of say, calling a different company called Angie’s List or something where once somebody captures your phone number, they’re going to blast your phone number everywhere. And I imagined my father getting these phone calls and thought, “Oh, he’s just going to flip his lid, if he gets all these phone calls. This just wouldn’t be good.” So I started really taking this seriously and started looking into how I could help my father. Periodically going back and forth to Oregon from Utah, it became overwhelming for my dad, and overwhelming for me and my brother. So it was really hard to watch. And I will never forget the day that I asked my, I actually had the conversation with my dad. And he said, “Michelle, you don’t have to worry when the time comes. I’ve got it all taken care of. I have a Medicare supplemental policy; it’ll cover everything.” And I had to say to my Dad, “Dad, I’m really sorry. But that will not cover assisted living or memory care for mom.” And he was so deflated. I could feel it over the phone. And it was so sad. So it became this very complex issue for my dad. He had no idea that there was help available. And so I started doing a whole bunch of studying. And that’s kind of how I got into it. So I decided to look into it really deeply. And I realized that it’s a big need for people.
Emmalou Penrod 4:06
Yes. And when I talked to you earlier, you were mentioning that when, you know, that your father was very reluctant for your mother to go into care. He wanted to take care of his wife, but he was being moved out of the role of the husband.
Michelle Malais 4:24
Yes, very much so, it is. So there’s so often a caregiver, a wife, a spouse, or a husband, or even a child will take on the role of being more like a parent, not the wife or the husband or the child any longer. And they don’t realize that this is happening because it’s a very slow process. Back to when I was talking about how I was hearing my mom progress, not only was I hearing my mom progress, but when I would visit I would see the progression. And my father because it was, he was seeing it on a daily basis, it was a subtle change for him. Whereas for me, I could see it clearly. And that was the most difficult part about it. Again, I’m going to go back to him being irritated and irritable, not realizing that he was doing that. And he was also very inexperienced at somebody with dementia. So I studied a lot about dementia, it’s very fascinating to me, because one of the things that I remember specifically him doing was asking my mom to, he would say, “Darlene just turn 180 degrees.” And, and I’m thinking to myself, “Wow, Dad, my mind’s Okay, and I could barely understand what 180 degrees is.” Somebody with dementia who’s having a problem with the signal from their brain, to their muscle and, and nerve, they can’t actually physically understand 180 degrees, much less, their body’s not following what they want their body to do. So it’s very difficult for, it was real difficult for him. So again, he became, he went from being a husband, to a caretaker, and had no idea that that was the case. When he discovered that is when my mom ended up going into a facility. And that’s when he was actually pretty excited about going and visiting her. He made the comment to me, “I’m going to go visit my wife.” And that was really a great thing. His stress level had really gone down. I’m not going to say he wasn’t sad, not having my mom around. But it was nice to be able to go visit his wife again, and have dinner with her.
Emmalou Penrod 6:53
And be a husband.
Michelle Malais 6:55
And be a husband, that’s right. Yep, it was really great. So he was so reluctant when this happened. You know, as children, when we’re trying to help our parents, they don’t want our help. Because in their role, they’ve always been, they’ve always known what to do and have always instructed us or kind of, you know, guided us through life. And this period of time, what happens is this, we kind of flip roles. And it isn’t easy for aging parents to have those roles flipped. So when I brought up, you know, possibly moving my mom, my mom ended up going into assisted living, not because my parents elected to. It was because she fell down and she couldn’t get up. And that’s the part that I want to stress. It is so important to be able to make choices, while you still can. Because all of a sudden, if you fall down and you can’t get up, you’re admitted into the hospital, the hospital admits you into a nursing home, and nursing homes are a step below hospital. Actually, hospitals are nicer. Nursing homes aren’t quite as nice, generally speaking, not always. But it’s really that old idea of an assisted living facility, to people that people are our parents age, they have that idea of those nursing homes as being like, it’s got that cold floor, it’s got that old hospital look. Even hospitals today are nicer than nursing homes. And, again, they have this idea, they don’t realize that in assisted living is actually almost like going to a resort. And you’re going to have three meals a day, you’re going to have somebody coming in and cleaning after you. Or cleaning or doing your laundry, changing your linens. You just really get to enjoy life. But my parents absolutely had no idea what it was like. So they never even investigated it. And when I brought this idea up to them, because I’m their daughter, they didn’t want to hear about it. When my mom was in a nursing home. What had happened was, my dad was very unhappy with her care. I kept telling him that “Dad, you have choices.” But again, I’m the daughter. So the daughter doesn’t know much. Even though this is what I do, right? The daughter doesn’t know much. But I ended up finding somebody just like myself, near where my dad and my mom lived. That person went and visited my parents. All of a sudden this is a terrific idea. She took my dad on a tour because my mom couldn’t leave. She took my dad on a tour of several places and one day, my dad signed papers to have my mom admitted to one of these places. And within 24 hours, my mom improved a great deal. It was amazing what it what occurred. And my mom went from not eating to, to eating. Like she loved the food. That’s all she talked about. It was amazing. And all it took was somebody like myself, who wasn’t me, because I’m the daughter. It was somebody a professional, right? That told my dad, yes, you do have choices. Yes, your wife doesn’t have to stay in this nursing home. Yes, you can take her elsewhere. So it worked out really well.
Emmalou Penrod 10:39
To somewhere where the food was better. I know quite often associated with nursing homes is kind of this distinct smell.
Michelle Malais 10:49
Yep.
Emmalou Penrod 10:50
And also, as you spoke, it reminded me of those conversations that need to be had before. For example, at what point do we decide to take away the car keys? Do we say you know, “Love you, Dad, but you really shouldn’t be driving anymore.”
Michelle Malais 11:14
Right.
Emmalou Penrod 11:15
And if you don’t have those conversations before. . . And you were also explaining that you have more options when you make decisions sooner, isn’t that true?
Michelle Malais 11:29
Absolutely. I met with a client yesterday who, actually, she is, it’s astounding how together she is. Physically she’s having challenges as far as walking. And here in the state of Utah, there are laws that we have to really think about. So, and I’m going to explain it this way, once a person, and this is in many states, but not all states, once a person becomes more than a one person assist. In other words, if somebody wakes up and gets up to go to the bathroom, and they need help, and it’s more than one person that has to help them, they actually have to be admitted straight into a nursing home, a skilled nursing facility. The whole idea is to try to avoid that because number one, food generally isn’t as good as it is in an assisted living. You have to remember, assisted living communities are striving to make you comfortable, feed you well. They want you to stay there. So they’re going to do what you know, as much as possible to make you feel good and want to be there. So because it’s a choice, not necessarily always a necessity. So back to this lady, she has several steps, several flights of stairs in her home. Her home is not her friend anymore. Even though she can get up and down the stairs, but it’s troublesome. So she’s decided to take the initiative, and to find an assisted living community of her liking and choice. So she’s gone ahead and she has toured. And by the way, some of these assisted livings, right now during COVID, it’s a little different, but they will actually invite you in and let you have lunch and test the food out and see if you like the staff there. And I really suggest doing that before you have fallen down and can’t get up, you’re admitted into a hospital, and then you have an E ticket straight to the nursing home. That’s what you want to really avoid. Also, it’s really great to plan as a whole, because maybe you’re married. And you want to make sure that you have enough funding for both husband and wife to make sure that they’re going to be able to be taken care of for the rest of their life. And that’s what we do, too. We do it as a whole, like a, kind of like a wholesome plan. So that’s what we do. Yep.
Emmalou Penrod 14:13
And a lot of people like your dad believe that Medicare is going to cover it or their Medicare supplement. And this is not the case.
Michelle Malais 14:24
No, Medicare covers your healthcare costs only. There are all sorts of different avenues to pay for this. And that’s one of the reasons that it’s nice to talk to somebody like myself because, you know, I work with my daughter-in-law. My daughter-in-law is a nurse, and I always tease her and say, “You have the easy part.” You know, and I’ll be honest with you, most people that are aging, love to talk about their health, they love to talk about their ailments. So technically, she really does have the easy part. I have the difficult part where I get to talk about their finances. And I always start out by saying, and this is a difficult quest, because generally people that are of the age to need assisted living, they don’t really want to share that private information with me. One of the things that I do out of respect is, especially if there’s family involved, I will ask the person, the senior, if it is okay, if we talk about finances in front of their loved ones. If not, we’ll table it. And we’ll come back to it another time, because I am working for them. And I want to make sure that they understand that their information is private. You know, I’m HIPAA certified as well. So that’s really important for people to know. I’m not allowed to disclose their personal information. So I will ask those difficult questions. And I, because I don’t want to place somebody for the next six months, I want to place somebody to make sure that they can age in place, and live out the rest of their life. And make sure there’s enough funds for their spouse,
Emmalou Penrod 16:16
When you talk finances, then it really is never too early. This is something, while we’re still young and healthy, we ought to be making plans for. So I understand there’s, you mentioned a variety of options. I know, there’s long term insurance and certain other life insurance policies that cover an option. So it’s good to know that to start planning ahead, and it sounds to me, you can either make the choice for yourself, or the choice will be made for you. And you may be much happier, being involved in the decision making. And I went through this with my mother. And as I toured you know, I know, my parents had that mindset that it’s the old folks home, that it’s just nothing to do but sit in the rocker all day. And I saw communities with activities and parties and social interaction. And you know, intellectually stimulating activities. And to me it, you know, I was mentally planning, picking out mine while I was shopping,
Michelle Malais 17:40
I’ve got mine picked out. I think one of the mistakes that people tend to make is that by waiting so long, when they can’t walk around, or they can’t get around to socialize, then it did become the old folks home. Instead you go in before you can’t get around. And you know, of course, anywhere you move to there’s going to be a period of adjustment. So there’s going to be, so you know, I’m just going to give you two examples. There’s the lady that I just spoke about, who’s able to get around, she’s able to socialize with people, she’s got fantastic modern art taste. I’m sure she’s gonna find her, you know, her little group of ladies that she’ll end up clicking with and who knows, maybe she’ll even find a boyfriend when she’s in there. Who knows. But then I’ve got another lady who’s waited too long. And really, I’m trying to get her in as soon as possible. Because if she falls one more time, I’m really afraid she’s gonna get that e ticket straight into a nursing home. Now, because of the fact that she’s waited so long, she’s not able to get around. And unless she decides, she’s going to go into a wheelchair. Right now she’s homebound. And so she’s been practicing for years not to socialize. So, unfortunately, she might miss that opportunity to get to know some of the people or she could just flourish. And she’s, I know that this particular lady, she’s mainly living off of meals on wheels. And I think that there was a time where Meals on Wheels was a fabulous program. But unfortunately, especially during COVID, their meals have really, you know, kind of gone by the wayside lately. And I’ve seen them. I personally would not want to eat them. And so therefore, I think that once she gets into this community, she may end up feeling a lot better because she’ll end up eating better. And I think that’s one of the problems, that she’s not eating well. And a lot of times people end up doing so much better once they get into assisted living. 85% of people said they wish they would have done it sooner.
Emmalou Penrod 20:12
Now, and you mentioned earlier that you’re working for them, but they don’t actually pay you.
Michelle Malais 20:18
No, they don’t. My service is free. And just so your podcasters know, listeners know, I, our company, we’re a national company, we are nationwide. I have my own branch here in Utah. And one of the things that we do is our services are free to the families. We are paid by the communities. So the communities will give us a referral fee. And then that referral fee is a one time fee only. So I’ve worked with families like the one lady that’s ready to move. I only met her. I’ve probably worked with her for about three days now, that’s it. But the other lady that I’ve been working with, I’ve been working with since February. So, I make visits to her to make sure she’s doing okay. So, I have a long term relationship with my clients. If they choose to be at home, I can make arrangements for them to be home for as long as it’s safe. And then when they decide that it’s time to go into a community, that’s when I will get a referral fee for that. But they never, I never charge them anything for my services to become placed. So that’s how that works.
Emmalou Penrod 21:40
Well, and from your story, you got into this because you became personally involved going through this with your mother. And so this is something you care about, you did not go into this to make money.
Michelle Malais 21:54
No.
Emmalou Penrod 21:54
And I love that about you, that you genuinely care about the client. You want to find the best setting for them, not the facility that pays the highest fee to you. What is best for them.
Michelle Malais 22:12
Correct. That is so important to me. And I actually have placed people without getting paid, because it was the better community and maybe they just weren’t, they weren’t going to cooperate with me, but that’s okay. So my intention is to make sure that the family’s happy as a whole. And as a matter of fact, I generally will only place with people that have this theme. I’m not gonna say I won’t. But one of the mistakes people make is they tend to want to place in a community that’s closest to their home. That’s not always the best idea. It depends on the situation. So for instance, there are some communities that do exceptionally well with dementia patients or Alzheimer’s patients. There are others that might not work out so much, I have some clients right now, one of them is a fall risk. She’s great, her mind is there. Her husband has Alzheimer’s. And so my goal is to get them placed together, so that they can hopefully be together for as long as possible. But there will probably be a point where he’s gonna need some extra care. And if she falls or needs to go into a skilled nursing facility, they’ll be able to take really good care of him, which is so important. I know that both of them will be taken care of. It’s not close to their house, though. It’s, you know, it’s there. They do have a facility down the street, but the care, that level of care isn’t going to work for them. So it’s really important.
Emmalou Penrod 23:58
So you know, these facilities. You know, what their areas of specialty are. You can advise on that. And you’re also certified in dementia care. So that tells me you’re able to help in, sometimes that’s the problem. The conversations between, you know, talking about what’s the best care for mom or dad get stalled because of the dementia.
Michelle Malais 24:26
Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod 24:27
You know, in my case, we would meet with mom, we would talk, she understood, it was all clear. We had everything set. The plan was in place. And then the next day she would be, “What? What are you talking about? Are you making plans behind my back?” And she had forgotten and we would start all over again. So you can help them also with that.
Michelle Malais 24:53
Absolutely. I work with some really great people too. So I have lots of friends. resources, some of them are community resources, some of them are free, that people have no idea exist. And some of them are, you know, income asset related, and some aren’t. So that’s another thing that, you know, I’m a good resource, I’m a good community resource. But one of the things, you know, that I do is I never refer people, seniors, to people that I haven’t personally met with, that share the same value system that I do, because I think it’s super important. Some of our, you know, the one thing that I will stress is that there are many people that take advantage of our elderly. And that’s a shame. And I really want to make sure that I’m working with people that won’t do that. So I have, you know, sometimes when, especially in dementia care, patients become very, very scared, very fearful. They are depressed, full of anxiety, afraid they’re gonna fall, afraid of transferring. So I want to make sure that even if they’re not at that stage, if I see that they’re heading towards that stage, I want to make sure the community is going to be able to take care of them, recognize their nonverbal language. Dementia care patients sometimes become nonverbal. So there’s a lot of issues at stake. One of the things that I like to share about my own mother’s experience is that my mother became incontinent. And my father knew that she was having problems with leakage, as far as urination goes. But he had no idea to the extent that it was happening. And I ask a question to families, a lot of times when they think that they can go ahead, and a spouse or children can take care of their folks. The question I ask them is that if you were in your parents, or your wife’s shoes, or husband shoes, would you prefer that somebody professional change their briefs? Or would you prefer to have your son daughter, wife, husband, change your briefs? And I haven’t had one person answer the question, I’d rather have my wife do it. Or I’d rather have my son do it. Or I’d rather have my daughter do it. It’s generally, “No, I’d rather have somebody professional do it.” So that’s called aging with dignity in my book. So if you can provide that person with that option of care, I think it’s better. Because I know that I wouldn’t want my son changing my briefs. When my incontinence goes a step, a level worse than it was, you know, just with the leakage. It becomes very exhausting. And there’s bedsheets to clean up, and there’s clothes to clean up, and so on and so forth. So as a mom, who’s had children, and has grandbabies, we all know what that can look like when they’re little legs to change, but when they’re big legs to change. It’s a whole different story.
Emmalou Penrod 28:16
Yes, yes. And I like that term aging with dignity. And isn’t that what we want for our parents?
Michelle Malais 28:24
Absolutely.
Emmalou Penrod 28:26
So it sounds like so, at any point, if you know, you’re concerned about your aging parents, you want more information for yourself planning your own future, you are a valuable resource, how do people contact you?
Michelle Malais 28:41
So they can contact me by phone. My phone number is 801-656-2141. And if they are in a different state, they can still contact me and I can get them to the right person in their area. That’s not a problem. We’re all over the nation. And then I also have a website, it’s assistedlivinglocators.com. And my branch is North Salt Lake. So the other thing is my Facebook page. My Facebook page is Assisted Living Locators of North Salt Lake.
Emmalou Penrod 29:25
And you can help anyone who lives in the state of Utah.
Michelle Malais 29:28
Anyone who lives in the state of Utah and if elsewhere as well. I won’t personally be able to help them, but I can direct them to the right person.
Emmalou Penrod 29:37
Because the laws vary from state to state. Okay.
Michelle Malais 29:40
Yes, it’s very important to find out like, you know, Wyoming’s an interesting state. I have a lot of people that contact me that moved their loved ones from Wyoming to Utah, because the laws are so, so different there and there’s not a lot of assisted living communities there for some reason. I don’t know why, but I get a lot of people from Wyoming.
Emmalou Penrod 30:05
Yeah. Interesting. Interesting. Well, you know, it’s one of those things we really don’t want to think about, but we’re much better off if we plan ahead.
Michelle Malais 30:16
Absolutely. Yep. I agree. And I really appreciate you, Emmalou. Because I think that you’re, you know, you’re doing a great thing where you’re talking about being a parent and then coming full circle and parenting our parents. Right?
Emmalou Penrod 30:35
Yeah. Don’t they call that the sandwich generation? They’re caught between their children and their parents. Yeah. Yeah.
Michelle Malais 30:41
Because there’s a lot of caregiving going on in the home with small children and our parents, you know, yeah, absolutely.
Emmalou Penrod 30:51
And what a blessing to know that there is support, skilled, experienced. Thank you, Michelle.
Michelle Malais 30:59
Thank you. Have a great evening.
Emmalou Penrod 31:01
You too. You have a great day.
Michelle Malais 31:03
Bye bye.
