How do guilt and fear impact your parenting? Pascale Dubé and I discuss that in this final episode of the series, “Parents and Teens, Two Different Species?”
Learn more about Pascale on her LinkedIn page or visit her Facebook group for parents. You can also schedule a 30 minute strategy call.
Emmalou Penrod
Welcome back. And today we’re talking about guilt and fear. Before we go too far I need for people who are listening for the first time, I need to make sure they know who you are. Pascale Dubé is a the founder of Parent Lead Coaching. She’s a communications expert. And she brings with her a rich background in business and applying those analogies with family life. So Pascale, welcome.
Pascale Dubé
Hi, Emmalou. How are you?
Emmalou Penrod
I’m doing great. I’ve enjoyed our conversations. So the three previous conversations we’ve had, and I’m looking forward to talking about guilt and fear. Now you label that an explosive combination. So I’m sure you’ll get into that.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, I will. First, as a parent, guilt and fear, we live through it every day. Most parents have guilt about working too much, not spending enough time with the children. Am I providing enough things for my children? Am I missing things? How do I protect my kid? Guilt from losing my temper with my children. So guilt is an emotion that parents feel quite a lot, and fear as well. We have those preconceived notions about what a parent should and shouldn’t do. And sometimes the parent does what a parent shouldn’t do. So there’s a very intricate relationship between guilt and fear, fear of not being enough as a parent and guilt, when you actually do some things that you you know you shouldn’t do. So it’s very important to know that it’s normal for parents to feel that way. And it’s normal for a parent to lose their temper once in a while. And it’s normal sometimes to feel guilty when you’re not spending enough time with the children. But what you do with those emotions, will give a color to the relationship that you actually foster with your teenager, how you relate to them, how you communicate with them, what your relationship feels like. You have to make sure that you don’t let guilt and fear have the best of your relationship, basically.
Emmalou Penrod
And I know exactly what you mean. There is so much responsibility in Parenthood, in raising a human being. And yet, well, to some extent, it can motivate us to do better. But you’re talking about the negative effect where we’re allowing it to just beat us down.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, well, the problem with fear is that most of the time fear comes from something we don’t know. So I call it the information problem. We fear what we don’t know. And with teenagers, they are slowly escaping our control. So there is lots of things that we don’t know about their lives. That’s why communication and my expertise comes in handy with communications, because communication is key. There must be trust. There must be a continual flow of communication between the parent and the kids so that you have the information you need to parent your teenager the best way you can. And as I said, sometimes to some clients, the truth will set you free. If you share your truth and allow them to show theirs safely, then this continuous flow of information will take place and you’ll have less problems. But fear, fear gets in the way of open communication and fear leads to anger. Anger arises mostly when we are fearful. And we are angry and we are fearful and we try to regain control. Fear to regain control, it alleviates the fear that we are feeling but control is an illusion. You know, the only true control that you have on your world is the one to control your own state of mind, your state, your emotional state. This is the only control that you actually have control over. You don’t have any control over your environment, and you cannot control other people. So the mistake sometimes that parents try to do is they try to control their teenager or they try to control their environment. You cannot do that the only thing you’ve got control over is your own state, your own reactions. And if you want to really, truly lessen your anxieties as a parent, and to actually manage the risk for your teenager, you have to empower them, and trust their judgment. And once you are able to do that, then your teenager will follow their own truth, and you will not have to control them so much.
Emmalou Penrod
I totally agree with you there. The surest, fastest route to frustration is trying to control something that you have no control over, like a teenager, a parent trying to control their teen, and the damage it does to that relationship. So how do we address this fear and guilt? Which is such a natural part of being a parent.
Pascale Dubé
Absolutely, well, you have to be conscious of quite a few things, if you want to manage it. First, you have to understand what is the nature of fear. And fear is, mostly it’s the meeting of an unchangeable past and an imagined and uncontrollable future. So you cannot change the past. And the future is uncertain, and you imagine it, so your fear comes from what you imagine. It’s not true. It’s what you imagine the future will look like. So that’s the nature of fear. It’s never based in the present. It’s always based in the past or in the future. And we always, we have the stories we have, I call it the internal monologue, the stories that we tell ourselves. They are, most of the time, they are self fulfilling prophecies, because our fears are actually manifesting in real life. Because we tell the stories, and therefore we focus on things that we shouldn’t focus on. So fear is a very interesting thing. Because it makes your fears become reality, because you give them energy. Basically, you keep telling yourself the same thing over and over again. So you have to understand the nature of fear. That’s the first thing if you understand it, then you can catch yourself when you’re in the loop. So be mindful about that. And you have to also understand that when you’re communicating in the state or fear or guilt, this is a surefire way to fail at connecting with your teenager, because you’re not present in the moment. As I said, fear is either in the past or in the future. And if you’re communicating with your teenager in the state of fear, then you’re not truly present with them, when you talk to them. And that miscommunication arises, tension arises. And that’s when you have a screaming match. It’s because you’re not with them in the present. So if you feel that emotions run super high, when you are talking to your teenager, ask for a timeout, if you require one.
Emmalou Penrod
Or postpone, just, “Let’s continue this discussion tomorrow.”
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, we will discuss this later and even fix the moment later. Tomorrow morning, we’ll talk about this when emotions have come down. And just asking for timeout to your teenager is also a good way to teach them that you don’t have to communicate in that state. So it might give them or provide them with a skill to fix their own limits, even with their friends, when they’re arguing. They can ask for timeout with anyone. And it’s a good thing to do that because you will never say things that you might regret later.
Emmalou Penrod
What a powerful skill to learn, how to resolve conflict. Priceless! Now as you were talking, I was thinking of an example. I was a high school teacher for many years and I would be in the meeting with the parents and the student and quite often I would hear parents expressing, frequently in front of their child, that they were so worried they wouldn’t finish high school, that they would not graduate. And, what you were saying, if that becomes the focus, if all the energy is going to, “They’re not going to graduate. They’re not going to pass all their classes.” How much better to talk about, “Now how can we support you in doing well in your classes? Because naturally you are going to graduate. Of course you are going to finish high school.”
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, there’s another thing that comes to mind is it kind of hurts when you say that anecdote of parents talking to a third person about their kid who was there, and who’s actually hearing it. There were some experiments that have been done. Between rats, I just was aware of that recently, two rats in the tube, they fight the winner, and the loser. And then if you put the loser in another tube with another rat, he will most definitely lose. Because he’s been reinforced in the belief that, you know, he’s not gonna win. And it’s a rat. Humans are even more complex and more intelligent. But those subtle messages, what you send the message to your kid is I don’t trust you to finish high school is the message that they’re received. They’re not good enough to finish high school. So it’s a self fulfilling prophecy. You’re actually putting the fear out there, and it’s absorbed by your teenager.
Emmalou Penrod
And sometimes it’s like, neither of their parents graduated high school, their older siblings didn’t graduate, their grandparents. But I’ve seen the victorious look on the face when it was announced. They were the first ones in their family. The trailblazer!
Pascale Dubé
Absolutely, absolutely. I’ve seen it in college kids, too. The parents never went to college. And they sacrificed everything so their kid can go to college. And when the kids graduate college, it’s a party.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah, the whole family celebrates. The whole family accepts that honor.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah. But there’s another side of this coin, though, because you don’t want to put too much pressure on your child. And, you know, live vicariously through their lives and to push them where they don’t want to go. So that’s a quite a subtle balance between, you know, encouraging and pushing, yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
It is, it is. But I think it is aided, when you are focusing on the best interest of your child. Sometimes the best interest is to give some encouragement, some nudging. Sometimes the best interest is to back off. And I loved what you said in the previous episode about empowering your teen, not by designing their future for them, but supporting them, drawing it out of them. “So how do you see your future? Where do you see yourself five years from now?” And just being there in a supportive role that empowers teens.
Pascale Dubé
Absolutely. And they may change their minds. You know, when they’re kids, they want to become a better veterinarian. And maybe you know what, they’re 15 years old, and somehow they develop a passion for becoming a plumber. And it’s fine. It’s perfect. Why not? We always have plumbers. Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah.
Pascale Dubé
So things change, circumstances change. That’s why you have to be flexible as a parent. And in the teenage years, parents and teenagers, they sometimes are super opposed, or they have tensions. They have arguments. And it’s a question of opposing fears. Your teenagers have fears too. And you’ve got fears. Your fears come from a place of distrust, perhaps in yourself as a parent, or in them as an inexperienced teenager. Sometimes you dismiss them or you dismiss their experience. But their fears are justified by your fears. So perhaps they’re afraid that you lack faith in them. Or maybe you do lack faith in them.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah.
Pascale Dubé
Check yourself. Maybe they fear that they are not good enough. Well, have you sent the message that you might think that they’re not good enough? Sometimes the messages are subtle. Sometimes it’s when you’re inconsistent. Sometimes it’s when you lack transparency. Sometimes it is like when you just, do you want to be right, or do you want to be happy? So sometimes you are so right. And you forget that what you want truly is for you and your teenager to be happy.
Emmalou Penrod
I like that example. I’m also thinking when it comes to fear and guilt, it’s easy as a parent to get caught up in what other people think. And you in your culture or social background, maybe there’s a big stress on going to college and you need a degree to amount to anything. So can you as a parent, love your child enough? Believe in them enough that when they tell you, they don’t want to go to college, they want to go to trade school instead, accept that and encourage them in working towards their dream.
Pascale Dubé
What I can say about that is that success comes with many faces, and many colors. And success is not necessarily measured with financial resources or the things that you buy. Success can be measured in happiness units. Do you have happiness in your life? Do you feel fulfilled? And fulfillment is a very tricky thing, because you can find rich people that are completely unfulfilled, yes, that are empty. And suddenly they are regarded as huge successes. Maybe put a premium on happiness instead with your child, and then you make sure that they do what they love, and that they love what they do.
Emmalou Penrod
What message does that send to your teen, when you care more about their happiness than what other people think? You tell them, “I will face the disapproval of what other people expect of me as a parent, because I believe in you. You are designing your future.”
Pascale Dubé
It’s a very powerful thing. And I always say, trust is the most important thing that you can have in a relationship. Trust is the paramount thing, is the basis of everything. And to tell your child that you trust them enough to know what’s best for them, and to know what makes them happy, not to put a judgment on it. If you trust them to tell you what they need and to tell tell you what makes them happy, this is the basis of trust. And you say, okay, that’s what you want. And if you change your mind, I’m still here. You can change your mind along the way. I changed career six times in my life. I’m 41 years old. I changed career six times, never had a problem changing because I knew that there was a bigger plan. And I was going the right way. I was going the way of my heart.
Emmalou Penrod
Yes.
Pascale Dubé
And that’s what I learned growing up is follow your heart. And that’s true. I’ve never been unhappy my whole life. I think I can be an example.
Emmalou Penrod
Yes, yeah. But again, going back to focusing on what is in your child’s best interest. I believe that if you focus on that, that will override guilt, and fear.
Pascale Dubé
Absolutely. Absolutely. And don’t forget that a relationship between two people, it concerns only the two people that are involved in their relationship.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah.
Pascale Dubé
You will always have people that are more focused on the exterior.
Emmalou Penrod
The appearance.
Pascale Dubé
In the end, you know, you have to learn to put that aside, because ultimately, it’s your life. It’s your choices. And anyone who judges you or is mean to you, it actually reflects back on them. It tells you a lot more about them than it tells you about yourself.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah, yeah.
Pascale Dubé
You have to learn to cut cut the noise.
Emmalou Penrod
I’ve always been a firm believer that parents are the ones best qualified to know what’s best for a student. When I worked in groups, I felt that even though you have the school personnel with their advanced degrees, the parent’s input is the most valuable because they know their teen better than anyone else there. They have a lifetime commitment, not just a school year and their opinion counts.
Pascale Dubé
People will have to work together you know. You cannot, as a coach or as a teacher, you cannot work against the parent of the kid, you just don’t do that. What you have to do is to help them along the way and support them through their journey. It is the same thing as a parent, you have to support your kid through their journey. And their journey may not look like what you thought it would look like. Their personality is different from your personality. And what you have to focus on really is empathy, meeting them where they are, and try to put yourself in their shoes. You’ve been there with your own personality. You’ve had hardships when you were a teenager. Try to think back in those days, what it was like to be bullied, what it was like to have stress before an exam. And what it was like to feel rejected by the one that you loved. Because this is the start of relationships, romantic relationships when you’re a teenager. And those can be pretty hard. As an adult, we go through hardships and heartbreaks. And people go, come and go, when you’re a teenager. The first love you have, this is stressful. Will you be rejected? Don’t dismiss your teenager’s experience. I think it’s another mistake that parents sometimes make. You want to protect them from everything. But they’re no longer the kid that they used to be. And I think it’s a process to grieve. The kid that you had, you were the hero, you were the center of their universe. And now the center is shifting, and you have to adapt. You have to be more flexible. And you have to grieve that your relationship you had with your small child is not the same, that you have to build moving forward. And it’s hard, it’s hard. I think It feeds the fear a little bit because you have to let go of your kid. And you don’t know if you’ve done enough in the past to help them figure out
Emmalou Penrod
You may have to accept that they are now at the point where they would really rather spend time with their friends than with you. Accept it and actually be thankful. Because isn’t that your objective, to raise an independent adult, one who doesn’t need you? So I loved what you said about fear and guilt. We’re either living in the past or in the future. And the best way to combat that is to be in the present. I like that.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, and I mentioned it in another podcast too. But your strongest asset as a parent, is your experience. And I think the value you add to your teenager’s life is if you allow them to share who they are, and you are able to reframe their dramas or reframe their experience in the broader sense, in the long term, if you are able to communicate to them that you know, as painful as a situation might be right now, things never last forever. Better days are ahead. If you can encourage in them the reflection, you know, looking inward, see how they feel. And actually I wouldn’t even say to allow them to really live what they’re feeling. It will change the dynamic between you, because you will basically tell them that what they’re feeling, you value what they’re feeling that what they’re feeling is heard, that you listen, that you see, that you acknowledge what they’re going through. I think it will make their journey easier and your relationship with your teenager a lot easier. Remember your own past compared with your teenager’s journey. I think you will find yourself in familiar territory and it will enable you to relate to your kids as they grow. It will help you let go of the past. Yeah, I believe.
Emmalou Penrod
So addressing the guilt and fear you feel and also your teen and staying in the present, focusing on what is in their best interest. Pascale, you have some excellent words of wisdom for parents of teenagers. Thank you so much for sharing them.
Pascale Dubé
Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed our conversations, Emmalou and your podcast is fantastic. I’ve listened to many of them, and I recommend them to everyone I talk to. I talk to my clients, I recommend it to my clients.
Emmalou Penrod
Thank you and tell us again, how can people contact you?
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, the best way to keep informed about what my activities are, what’s coming up is to join my Facebook page. It’s Parent Lead Coaching on Facebook, and my website ParentLeadCoaching.com should be up and running by mid July. I will announce it on my Facebook page so you’ll stay informed.
Emmalou Penrod
Sounds great. Thank you very much, Pascale. You have a great day.
Pascale Dubé
You too. Thank you so much.