Wil Carlos shares why he is a male coach who primarily attracts female clients, the 8 Pillars of the Imposter Complex, and how he helps his clients navigate the process to reaching their goals. He offer several free products and services that are well worth knowing about. For example, check out his free session and his powerful mini-meditation.
Emmalou Penrod
Today, I’m talking to Wil Carlos, and Wil is a business coach with a spiritual twist. I had the opportunity to meet him through networking and get to know him better. He has a really interesting approach in how he helps people. Wil, welcome.
Wil Carlos
Thanks. Thanks for having me.
Emmalou Penrod
And I’m curious into what led you to become a business coach, and how did you end up working mostly with women?
Wil Carlos
Yeah, well, and again, thanks for having me on the show. And thanks for letting me jump right into probably the main question on most women’s minds, which is, well, there’s two, I think, just from what you shared, what the heck does spiritual twist mean? And why the heck is this male coach working predominantly with women? And they’re both very, very valid questions. So believe it or not, I didn’t get the second question for the first three years of my practice, even though I was working primarily with women anyway. But I hadn’t come out and said that that’s what I was doing. I was mostly just, you know, call it attracting or, or experiencing that, mostly women, around 95% of the people that found me for my work were women. And then I started to put it in my marketing. Then I started to own that. Then I started to allow myself to be seen for that. And then finally, about a year later, a few women came to me and said, “Hey, what’s up with this? Why are you as a man targeting women?” And I said, “Whoa! I’m not targeting anyone. I’m just recognizing, who has naturally found me and then moving in that direction.” So that hopefully will address that part. And I have a whole three part blog post series that I put both on LinkedIn and my website to really address that in detail, because it’s very important. I think it’s really important for any man who’s looking to work primarily, not exclusively, but primarily with women. I think that’s a very responsible question to answer and to ask. And then the next part, the spiritual twist part is, it’s actually the other way around. I’m a spiritual coach with a business twist. But frankly, it sounds better to say a business coach with a spiritual twist. It allows people to be curious about what I do. Mindset would be one way that people could describe it. But really what I do is I help my clients to see where are they not in alignment with themselves. Where are they? And this will sound a bit harsh, but where are they lying to themselves? Where are they saying, I really want to work on my business, I really want to be a healer out there in the world and go full time. But really, they’re scared to death that someone’s going to judge them for not keeping the house more clean. I know that sounds overly simplistic, but that’s literally a topic that I’ve helped at least a dozen clients with, they really have a fear of being judged for. Maybe they’d be a bad mom. Maybe their house wouldn’t be clean enough. Maybe their mom’s gonna come over and say, “You can’t keep a house and a family like this. What do you think you’re doing? You’re going to lose your family.” These are real concerns that a lot of people have. And there are many, many more. But that’s just one example of the kinds of half truths that we tell ourselves that hold us back from expressing our full self in an online business. And most of my clients are related to business. But a lot of personal stuff comes up along that business journey, which now that’s more of our focus today.
Emmalou Penrod
You just touched on something that is so critical. This whole issue of what other people think. And I don’t know if it’s accurate to say that women are especially vulnerable to this. I’m sure it affects men too. But this fear of what other people think of us quite often prevents us from pursuing our dreams. The woman who decides she wants to be a doctor, not a nurse, that having the gumption and then you also talked about being honest with yourself. I think you hit on a core element there, too. Yeah, just the whole idea of getting all parts of our mind on the same page.
Wil Carlos
Mm hmm. Yeah. And I’m glad you wanted to hone in on that because I had to go through the same thing. And I’ve gone through it many, many times before, but in identifying that, hey, look, it’s about 95% women that come to me for this work. And then to own that, in my messaging, on my marketing, brought some criticism, not a lot, but it definitely brought some uncomfortable conversations. Yeah, and had me really question for myself like, Whoa, I really got to make sure that I can stand behind this. And after just a little, a very little bit of soul searching realize “No, no, I can stand behind this 110%.” I feel very passionately about this, feel very passionately about the women that are doing incredible work that want to be bigger and bolder in their own way. And they’re getting shut down by other people or by themselves. And I’m frankly quite, quite tired of it. It pisses me off that women hold themselves back and hold each other back. And it pisses me off that more men don’t stand up for women to be able to be fully expressed. And it breaks my heart that so many incredible women leaders have not had the airtime that they deserve, because of all these cultural and societal and religious and historical reasons. And so what I do about it is I work with women. And I focus on the issues that most of my clients are facing, especially the imposter complex, which I know we’re probably going to get into because that’s what almost all of my work is about. But especially those aspects of the the inner workings. And that when we deal with the eight elements or the eight, what I call the eight pillars of the imposter complex. And when we deal with them head on, and when we’re honest with ourselves, then we can say, “Oh, I really do we want to start a business.” Or we could say, “I really don’t want to start a business, I actually really love being the primary caregiver and taking care of the home, and I’m happy to let my partner earn the majority of the income.” We can get really honest. And we can step out of societal expectations or family expectations and all the shoulds and the shames and be who we really want to be. So that’s my whole agenda with my work.
Emmalou Penrod
Now you just applied a whole different interpretation or a new perspective of the imposter syndrome. I always thought of it as believing, you know, as our business becomes more successful, that we’re not good enough. We’re not ready for this. But you also explain it could be just a matter of not being honest about who we are or what we really want. So is this a good time to go into your eight pillars of the imposter syndrome?
Wil Carlos
Yeah, yeah, for sure. And so, about the not being honest with ourselves, I think that’s what the imposter complex is. And we’ll define in a moment imposter complex, imposter syndrome. Which one is it? What are we really talking about? In a moment, but not being honest with ourselves, that’s the only place that the imposter complex can get purchase, so to speak. So when I when I say purchase, I mean, if you’re rock climbing, you need a enough purchase for a handhold or a foothold. If you don’t have a purchase on the cliffside, you can’t climb. It’s the same with the imposter complex. If you don’t give it any space, it can’t grow. It can’t have anything to do with your life. So anytime that we are dishonest with ourselves, or we’re telling half truths, when we say things, like, “I’m happy to stay home.” Or, “All I really want to build a business.” But we’re actually lying to ourselves, the imposter complex goes, “Ooh, goody!” You can imagine the Grinch, like, “Oh, great, they left the door open.” And he’s just gonna come in and make a mess. So anytime that we are telling half truths, and this comes up a lot with boundaries, or people pleasing, that’s one of the the pillars. When we’re people pleasing and doing things because someone else wants us to or we think that they want us to, then we just, it’s like, we’ve opened up half of our house to the imposter complex. And then we wonder why we start waking up tired. We wonder why we start waking up, not really looking forward to the day or we wonder why it’s hard to stand up for ourselves or really own our expression in the world. Well, because half of your energy is taken up with these half truths. And they come in slowly. And then more and more and more. And again, this goes back to my passion for working with women, because I’ve seen with starting with my mom, you know, where women sacrifice themselves for the good of their kids or the good of their family or their community, because it was just expected that that’s what women do. Women are the sacrificers. And it was just expected that men do whatever the heck they want to do. And, and I’ve noticed that since a young age, and I’ve never been okay with that. I’ve never been okay with that. The man just gets to, you know, screw off and do whatever he wants, frankly, and women are left to pick up the mess behind. So that’s another, Yeah, that gets into another passion area of mine, but that’s another reason why I think that my soul called me to do this work.
Emmalou Penrod
I like that expression, your soul called you to do this work. That’s powerful.
Wil Carlos
Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
And as you were speaking, I can just see that traditional setting. You know, in the United States, we have this big Thanksgiving meal. Usually it’s the women who have worked to prepare it. And then the men go off and watch football while the women clean up.
Wil Carlos
Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
And it doesn’t have to be that way.
Wil Carlos
Yeah. Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
So you talked about people pleasing. And that is something I feel women are, especially mothers, are very vulnerable to. We want to make sure we’re making everybody happy. So that’s one pillar, right?
Wil Carlos
Yeah. So they actually go in a very specific order. I’d like to read it to you. It’s a little short story. It’s a very short story. And I make up a name to put with it. So we’ll call her Jane. And so Jane started procrastinating as the first pillar of the imposter complex. And it led to feeling really overwhelmed, which is the second pillar of the imposter complex. And now that she’s dealing with that, it’s led to her inner critic, the third pillar, kicking her butt with judgment and criticism, and self doubt, thoughts. And then because of all that, she developed the imposter complex, fantastic, not. And so she started playing small. And that’s the fifth. And she started playing small so that she could stay safe. And also so that she wouldn’t have to own her expertise, which is the sixth pillar. And then she gave into people pleasing and over giving, thinking that would help. That’s the seventh pillar. And finally, she developed some crappy boundaries, as the eighth and the final pillar, and realized that she lost a part of herself along the way.
Emmalou Penrod
That is a powerful story that really gets you thinking. So if a woman identifies with that, you’re someone she could reach out to for some help.
Wil Carlos
Yeah, yeah. That’s why I do it. And so those eight pillars, you know, this is not scientific, but it’s not anecdotal. It’s somewhere in between, because I’ve done around 500 free sessions with people all over the world. So 26 countries, 27 countries and counting. And from those clients have signed up for private sessions and group sessions. So there’s way more sessions on top of that, but that’s just free sessions alone. And after these past four years, I started to notice, wait a second, almost everyone’s dealing with procrastination. While that’s expected, they’ve got emotional resistance. But they’re also dealing with overwhelm. And they’re also dealing with playing small, and these are all the things that they’re telling me that they’re dealing with. And so, after doing this work for a while, I thought, Okay, I need to make a framework because I believe any great work needs a framework. You know, Brendon Burchard, has his high performance habits. Tony Robbins has his structured things. You know, Carol Dweck, everyone’s got a system or something that they can hang their hat on. And I knew I didn’t want to conduct a big full scientific study. That’s not my path. But I did look back at all the sessions that I had notes from, because I keep notes for every session, and realized, “Wow, there’s these eight pillars.” And I didn’t have a number in mind beforehand. I hope I can get it down to less in the future, quite frankly, because eight’s too many, but so far, there are eight pillars. And it follows like that story. So sometimes you can track it in one place. So if you feel like you’re playing small in your life, and this is for anyone who’s listening, if you feel like you’re playing small, it may not be that you’re playing small, necessarily. You might have to look a little further back in the chain. Maybe you’re actually, maybe overwhelmed is the thing that’s most got you locked in, you know, locked down. And that has a different approach. And until you deal with the other ones first or start getting some momentum back in your life, it’s really hard. And this is why a lot of people fail if they hire a life coach or they hire a business coach or they just try to use willpower, the DIY approach. And they go, “I just can’t stand up for myself better. I can’t be big in my life. Why can’t I be bigger?” Well, if you’re procrastinating every day, on the things that matter to you, and you’re overwhelmed all the time, and your inner critic is kicking your butt around town and and now you feel like an imposter in your own life. How are you going to stand up for yourself? How are you going to be big? You’ve exhausted your resources before that big moment comes. So sometimes it’s good to take a step back, look at the full picture and go, “Okay, if I start addressing those other ones first, I can get a bit of momentum. And then when it comes time to stand up for myself or to be bigger in my life, now I have a fighting chance.”
Emmalou Penrod
You said it starts with this emotional resistance. And that leads to the procrastination. So you’re getting at the root of the problem. You address that emotional resistance, which could come because you’re not being honest with yourself.
Wil Carlos
Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
And then that leads to that chain of eight that you mentioned. And I think it’s interesting. Now to me, that’s an informal scientific study, if you’ve worked with hundreds of people, and you’ve spotted that pattern. But it begins by getting yourself in alignment. And I like your analogy. When you are in my business, and you know all hypnosis is self hypnosis, people can learn how to use self hypnosis, very similar to meditation, to help reach their goals. But there are some situations and topics that you’re too close to have the proper perspective. It’s like falling into a pit. You need someone else to help get you out of the pit. And then you can keep going and make sure you don’t fall into another pit. It sounds to me that this is what you’re doing. You’re helping those women who have fallen into that pit. And you’re getting them out. And you’re not just addressing the symptoms, the immediate problem you’re going back to, “Let’s get rid of that emotional resistance.” Is that accurate?
Wil Carlos
Yeah, absolutely. And I can actually give a very specific example that just happened today on one of the free sessions that I do. And then I want to talk about, if you can remind me, the bat in the cave analogy.
Emmalou Penrod
Oh, yes.
Wil Carlos
Because I think that would shed some light on on all this. And then I had another thought. I was trying not to write it down. I was trying to stay present with what you’re saying. Now, it’s gone. But we’ll see if it comes back. So in terms of emotional resistance, that’s what I do. I mean, my spiritual gift is, I sit with someone and I hear them speak and I ask them questions. And then I can hear or see where they are not really aligned, where they’re trying to half truth or whether they are lying to themselves. And I literally will hear it like words, or I’ll just, I’ll see it. It’s usually that I hear, but sometimes I’ll see it or in a sense, and so I dig deeper. And when I do that, it helps people to see where they’ve been pulling a fast one on themselves for weeks, months or years, where they’ve been out of alignment. And at first, most people will say, “No, no, no, no, no, you’re off base.” But usually, by the end of the session, it comes around to like, “Oh, that’s what you mean.” And then there’s a bit of a light bulb that goes off. And it’s not that I’m always right. I’m not one of those, you know, clairvoyants. I’m just 100% accurate. It’s more like, like a dog with a bone. I can smell it. It’s there. It’s somewhere I know it’s there. And I hone in and I get closer and closer. And then when we find it, we both know, because it’s as if the air gets lighter. And that’s what happened today in a free session. So I was working with this woman. And of course, I’m not going to give any details that would give away privacy. But working with this woman and we were doing clearings and it was going really well but still wasn’t quite clicking something. And I could feel it. The air was thick, and it wasn’t quite dinging the way that I like it to. And then finally, at the very end of the session, I asked as I always do, how are you feeling so far? Are you feeling better, worse, same or different? And she said, “Oh, better, you know, I’ve got some different thoughts if you like it’s safe to expand and to grow. So a little bit better.” And I said, “Ah, but not quite. There’s something else. Like there’s just, there’s something else.” So we talked for another minute. And we identified what it was. And it was around safety, that it wasn’t safe for this person to be okay if other people weren’t okay. And when we saw that, and when we cleared that belief, literally we both just kind of sat back in our chairs. She smiled really big. It felt like I could hear clearly again as if there had been static and now it’s gone. And we both said, “Okay, that’s why we had this whole conversation today.” Everything else is helpful. But that was the whole point. That was the whole reason. That was the misaligned, the self lie. And so the analogy that I use is a bat in a cave. So I’m like the bat in the cave, which is great, because I always want to be Batman. So it’s been a dream of mine. And my clients are in the cave. They see a vision. They’ve got a dream for their life, whether it’s business or personal. And they can see it at the end of the tunnel. And it’s bright, and it’s beautiful, and it’s amazing. But somehow they get lost in this tunnel. And because they’re focused on the light of where they really want to go, what they know to be true about themselves, they’re blind to what’s in the cave. They’re blind to the rocks. They’re blind to the holes. And so they’re bouncing around banging their head, stubbing their toes, falling in the holes, going, I just, if I could just, you know, follow through on what I said I would do if I could just, you know, all those self motivation thing. Or if I could just spend 10 minutes a day tidying the house, then this would be so much easier, I wouldn’t have to do a deep clean all the time. I keep thinking of house analogies, because I see your living room behind you. So it’s influencing my examples. But it’s like you’ve got lost in the cave. And so I’m a bat on the side, I can’t see, I can’t know the full plan. What I can do is use sonar, and bounce it off the objects and bounced off the walls and say, “Whoa, whoa, stop, go, right.” So you go right, and you go, oh, that worked. I go, “Okay, stop now go straight there.” Oh, they go straight. And that worked. I don’t have the full plan. When I figure that out, I’ll you know, triple my rates or whatever. But for now I have the sonar. So that describes kind of how it all works.
Emmalou Penrod
Wow. So do you start off working with every client with this free session just to identify where the rocks are?
Wil Carlos
Mostly, so I’ve built my, almost my entire practice with this free session offer. And so it’s called the Align with Ease, free session. That’s an energy work, energy healing session. I also do a business consultation for people that are clear that they’re focused on business. They’ve been in business for three or five years. They’re not brand new. And they know they want to go to the next level and they’re shopping around for the right person. So that sessions a bit longer, we go a bit deeper, I do a bigger intake process. But the free sessions available to anyone who thinks that they might want to do energy work. They want to try it out. They want to see if it’s a good fit. And it’s a 15 to 30 minute session, depending sometimes just 15. And we get a great result. Sometimes it takes a little longer. And yeah, that’s how I start with almost everyone. So when people come and just book a session right away, they hear me on a podcast like this. And they go, “Yeah, I’m just, sign me up, I’m ready to go.” But most people come through the free session.
Emmalou Penrod
Awesome. Is this the only service you offer? Are there any other? Yeah, have you written a book yet?
Wil Carlos
It’s funny, you should ask that. Because that’s the third little hint that the universe has given me in about 24 hours. No, I haven’t written a book yet. I would like to. The trouble is, I don’t enjoy writing. I love speaking. I love sharing in an auditory fashion. But I don’t enjoy writing. So when I can figure that out, maybe just do an audio book and someone else can transcribe it.
Emmalou Penrod
You know, I’ve heard that done. I’ve heard of people who did that.
Wil Carlos
Yeah, so I do group programs as well. I do private sessions. I do, you know, an inner circle membership for those that are focused on business. And for those that are focused on personal, it’s usually just session by session, or like a mini three session bundle. Because if it’s personal, probably three sessions is all we need to really get a lot of freedom and joy and lightness in that area. Business is kind of over the long term. And I do tons of free stuff. I’ve got my Facebook group and I do lots of videos. There’s so much content that I put out that people don’t really need to hire me. They can just kind of go get all the free content and get a lot of my best stuff.
Emmalou Penrod
Now, wait a minute, should you be saying that?
Wil Carlos
I take the philosophy that I learned from a guy named Tad Hargreaves, he does https://marketingforhippies.com/. And I really like his philosophy. He puts out so much amazing content, and you could get lost in it. Or you could hire him either privately or for a program and just get incredible results in a much shorter time with less confusion, without needing to poke around and put it all together yourself. And that’s kind of my take as well. Like I can put all of my best thoughts in video, and I do. But when someone sits with me for a session, it’s a whole different world. They can see, you know, in 30 minutes or 40 minutes like, “Whoa, that’s where I’ve been holding back and playing small for the last decade. And we just thought in a session and now I can clear it and shift it.” I mean that’s, Yeah, that’s far more valuable to do that in a condensed time than to take your own time seeing all the videos. That’s just my philosophy.
Emmalou Penrod
That is a good point. Yeah, excellent point. So what’s the best way for people to contact you?
Wil Carlos
There are two ways. One is with that free session and the link, it’s a little long to say but you can put it in the show notes is https://www.myspiritualclarity.com/alignwithease. And that takes you to a free session offer. It’s very straightforward the booking process, you fill out an application form so that I can help focus the energy before we meet. So that’s a really important step. And there’s a preparation video to make sure that I explain all the weird things that happened during the session, when I i twitch that you know what that means, when I yawn. You know, that means it’s just different ways that energy processes in my body, just the main thing, and then if people are a little shy, and they don’t want to meet me in person just yet, there’s also a mini meditation. That’s really powerful. Actually, I was surprised when I made it. I loved it. And then the feedback has been just surprisingly powerful and delightful. And that’s, again, my spiritual clarity.com forward slash seven, the number seven minute reset. So seven minute reset with a number seven. And it’s a free meditation. It’s there for people to use it every day just to get back on track. It’s energy work, it’s a meditation. And it’s there just as a gift for anyone that would like to have it.
Emmalou Penrod
Those are wonderful gifts. Now, were you able to remember the other point you wanted to make?
Wil Carlos
Nope. Gone through the spirit.
Emmalou Penrod
I love what you’re doing. It sounds to me like you are helping a lot of people. And you mentioned, in other countries, so I’m assuming this doesn’t have to be in person, you can do this by zoom.
Wil Carlos
Yeah, so I’m in Canada, and I have almost no Canadian clients, which I find quite funny. Because again, I haven’t targeted the United States and the Netherlands specifically. And yet, that’s where almost all of my clients are. One in England, a few in England over the years, but it’s 60 or 70% US and then another 30% or so in the Netherlands. And we could get into a whole other podcast someday about why there’s a unique energy and mindset about the Netherlands that is really attracted to my work, which is also similar to southern United States, the bible belt of the United States. There’s such a connection there. But that would take, you know even more time to get into this fascinating, but yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
You said it right there. It’s the energy you’re putting out. And these are the people who are drawn to it. So it sounds like, and to me, this is really a gift, you have the ability to attract your ideal clients. That’s what every entrepreneur wants.
Wil Carlos
That’s true, very true. Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
Wil, thank you so much for your time, I am going to encourage you to write that book, audio or otherwise. You have a lot of valuable content to share with the world. And we do need to comment on the title of The Helper’s Paradox.
Wil Carlos
I was just thinking the same thing. So I think, if anyone wants to, and they kind of think back over the episode, or listen back to the episode, you will hear this thread throughout the whole thing, but we just didn’t say it in this way. So what I’ve noticed, and this is kind of a new reb tech. I’ve seen this for the last three years. But this language of the helper’s paradox is brand new. And that is that I’ve noticed in my work, that the more a person needs to help, the less capable they are of actually offering that help.
Emmalou Penrod
Wow.
Wil Carlos
And I see this with the healers that I work with, especially as well as coaches and also artists. It seems to happen for women more than men. I have no idea why. And this is only from my personal life experience. This is not, again, not scientific in that way. It’s just anecdotal. But I’ve noticed, and this is something that I suffered from for almost my entire life, I had a need to save the world. I believed it was my job. It was my obligation to save the world. And I wasn’t even raised Christian. I just believe that it was my job. Yeah, and I suffered with that affliction for almost my entire life. And it wasn’t until I was able to see the truth about that and to release it and let it go that I finally was able to start having clients want to work with me. Until then clients would come but then they would go because they would sense that I wasn’t in business to actually help them get to where they wanted to be. I was in business to save them, to fix them, to help them that it was I needed to. I had a need. So I was coming in with my need. I was responding to their energy of need is a big one for parents, just side note. And when we respond to the energy of need, we end up creating more need. Now I want to be responsible and say, it doesn’t mean when my four year old daughter says, “Daddy, I fell off the couch.” or like if she’s crying because she fell off the couch to ignore her and say, “Oh, I don’t respond to the energy.” But that’s not what I’m saying at all. Let’s be responsible adults, let’s not be silly. I’m talking about your deeper energy, your beliefs. And so when my clients shift that, when I shifted that, that’s kind of like when life begins again, because now we get to work with people that we love working with, because it’s fun. We get to clean the house, because it’s fun. We get to do what we do for joy, not out of obligation.
Emmalou Penrod
I’m just going to, just to clarify. So as part of that, that you’re no longer focusing, you had to let go of focusing on your need to help and just focus on the client.
Wil Carlos
Almost, it was letting go of my need to help and allowing myself to focus on what I love, and what my joy is. And that happens to be helping clients get where they want to be. But it could just as easily be playing the guitar and being a recording artist. Again, it could just as easily have been being a landscaper. I seem to really enjoy that these days. It could go any direction. There’s no obligation. There’s no have to; there’s no should.
Emmalou Penrod
Focusing on the joy, not the need.
Wil Carlos
Yeah. And that’s I mean, I’m certainly not the first person to say that. It’s been around for centuries. But I think this approach is a little bit different in that it’s coming from a different angle of the helpers of the world need to take a step back and kind of check themselves in the mirror and see, what’s your actual inspiring energy? Are you doing this to fulfill a need that you have? Are you doing it because you’re coming from joy and love and you want to just have fun while you do what you do? And I think that’s a bit of a different angle.
Emmalou Penrod
It is. It is. And I can’t say that I’m real familiar with it. I think this is something that’s going to benefit parents, mothers.
Wil Carlos
Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
To approach your role as the mother, the nurturer of the family, with joy and love. Not a need, especially not the need to look good and impress your mother-in-law.
Wil Carlos
Yeah, and I think that’s where this message has gotten lost over the years is that, especially in that scenario, you know, to impress the mother-in-law, we put the joy, we find, it’s like we find the joy in the s-h-i-t. You know, we find it there instead of to look “Well, why is there s-h-i-t there in the first place?” Because if that’s there, everything’s just getting piled on top of that. You never get rid of it. It’s always going to be there. So that’s my approach is okay, where are you lying to yourself? Where are you being less than honest with yourself? Let’s deal with that first. And having joy. It’s just joy. It’s not the icing, this is an analogy I used to use all the time as a coach many years ago, stop putting icing on a s-h-i-t cake.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah.
Wil Carlos
You’ll always taste it. I’m sorry to be graphic. But you’ll always taste it. Let’s just have a real cake and put icing on top of a real cake.
Emmalou Penrod
Get rid of it. Get a real cake. Beautiful. Well, thank you. Well, this has been very enlightening. I’ve enjoyed this conversation very much.
Wil Carlos
Yeah, and thank you for having me. this has brought out part of why I love sharing in this kind of format instead of writing because, you know, speaking with you brings out a whole new energy. I’m very much, it’s the person in the interview that I’m speaking to, the client that brings up different elements or dynamics of the work, because it’s not, it doesn’t belong to me. It just comes through me or through my brain or through my spirit or whatever. So I really appreciate your unique energy. And the completely different things that have come out of this conversation that I’ve never said before. And I can’t wait for people to hear this particular episode, especially my audience who, although they’re mostly business owners, are going to get so much out of this and thank you for your energy and your willingness to be in this conversation and pull out whole new gems of, of hopefully wisdom.
Emmalou Penrod
Thank you. And, Wil, you have a great day.
Wil Carlos
You too. Thanks, Emmalou.