Are parents and teens two different species? Pascale Dubé joins me for a series of 4 episodes on communicating with your teen. Learn more about Pascale on her LinkedIn page or visit her Facebook group for parents. You can also schedule a 30 minute strategy call.
Emmalou Penrod
Hello, this is Emmalou Penrod and I am so excited to have Pascale Dubé with me. She is an amazing expert on communication. We have talked. We have collaborated. I am thrilled to be able to offer her expertise since she’s so generous and sharing. So we are starting a four part series on parents and teens, two different species. And it’s all about communication. So this is our first episode. But before we begin, I would like Pascale to have an opportunity to introduce yourself. So Pascale, thank you and Welcome.
Pascale Dubé
Well, thank you so much for having me. Yeah, a little bit about me, I come from Quebec City. So I was raised in a typical French speaking Quebec family. My name comes from the French, you know, it’s French. So of course, Pascale today is not something you hear very often in the anglophone community. I’m the youngest of three sisters, and both my parents are historians. And they are both prone to analyze the world through the lens of history and be super, super rational about everything. And we were a pretty happy family, until tragedy struck when my eldest sister, Sophie, was diagnosed with a brain tumor. And back then I was only 10 years old. And as you can imagine, I had to grow up quite quickly, because my parents had to spend a lot of time taking care of my sister. And my other sister and I, that we grew up together. And we were pretty much left to our own devices for a couple of years, when I was just starting my teenage years Emotions and communications were and are still a little bit of a challenge in my family. We were always able to share information. That was alright, but we somehow avoided emotionally charged discussions. So I grew up in this kind of atmosphere where I had to learn to communicate and to deal with my own emotions. And as most teenagers do, I resented my parents for the way they handled things a little bit. And they never sought help for us to cope with the emotions that we were going through. But as I’ve now come to realize, because I grew up, and I matured, all parents, including mine, they always do the best they can. And sometimes, pride or shame, or the way they were brought up, it prevents them from asking for help. And as a result, there is always lingering pain for all involved, whether it’s the parents or the kids, and it’s still goes on even years later. We still have a very good relationship. I have a good relationship with my parents, but the pain, you know, is still there. And as we all know, when tough times arise, we develop coping mechanisms to deal with what’s going on. And in my case, the coping mechanism I came up with was learning to analyze human behaviors, learning to really look at other people, see what their motivations were, empathize with them. And the way I coped with my own pain was actually helping out my friends at school or people in my family that were going through stuff. So I kind of always was there to support them. And that’s where my coaching began, actually. And that’s where I come from, is basically my communication skills come from that event that really molded me and shaped me into being able to communicate better and deal with my emotions and help others do too. So, yeah,
Emmalou Penrod
Pascale, I love that recognition. And I believe very strongly, too, that parents do the best they can. And it’s unfortunate that somehow we have this stigma that it’s a shame to ask for help. When help is readily available. Here you are, you’ve been through family trauma, you know, and you use that to develop a service that will benefit families. I love that. I am so excited we get to do this series. So first we’re going to be starting with technology, right? You labeled it The Conundrum of Technology.
Pascale Dubé
Yes, it’s a bit of a conundrum because we think that technology is used to help each other to connect better. So social media was actually invented in order for people to connect, but in some way it disconnects us so it It’s kind of a catch 22. Because if you don’t use it, then you’re not, you know, the YOLO, you only live once and FOMO fear of missing out. It’s all part of this new way of communicating that kind of disconnects us from our emotions. It’s all about appearance. And technology, even though it helps us communicate better with each other, you know, we’re always available, always accessible through our phones. In another way, we are not communicating the true stuff, you know, we’re not communicating from the heart. We’re communicating more from the head, and we’re using our head. But technology is a good tool, but you have to use it properly. And as a parent, it’s your job to raise your children and to make them aware of the challenges and the dangers that technology actually carries. And it’s your job to make sure that technology doesn’t impair the development of your teenagers. And with COVID, that was a huge thing. Because we’re always on all our screens, always looking at a screen. And still,
Emmalou Penrod
And you get family dinner, and everyone’s on their phone. They’re sitting down at the same table. But the communication is not,
Pascale Dubé
Not there, it’s not there. And there’s a big part of life and of family life that you are missing if you don’t have those discussions at family dinner. I remember when I was younger, those were the best times we had because my father was always coming from school, telling all these stories about what was happening. And it was a window in the reality of our parents that made us actually understand their reality better. And the same goes on the other way. If you’re discussing what’s happening with you at family dinner, then the parent knows what’s going on with you. So this is a very important thing that is actually lacking nowadays with the phones,
Emmalou Penrod
I’ve heard many families have the rule, no electronics at the dinner table.
Pascale Dubé
It’s a very good rule to have. It’s a very good rule to have. You know, when your teenager grows up in these technological advancement days, and they are always on their phones, maybe they are also mimicking something that you are doing. So it’s important to lead by example, not only in the technology area, but always also in other areas of your life. But if you are an addict to your phone, then the chances are that your kids will also display the same behaviors. So your the parent. So basically, you are responsible for leading by example and putting the rules.
Emmalou Penrod
The teenagers need to see the parents putting down their phone and making eye contact and sharing genuine feelings. Not the, you know, you’ve seen the jokes about getting up, getting dressed and then trying to take a picture showing that you just got out of bed, you know, putting your makeup on, fixing your hair, or the really delicious looking healthy salad, taking a picture of that and then actually eating a hot dog.
Pascale Dubé
Are you enjoying your salad if all you do is taking pictures? I’m not sure. Living in the moment with technology and social media nowadays, it’s kind of weird because everything is automatic. Everything is instant, instantaneous.
Emmalou Penrod
Instant gratification.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, instant gratification. There you go. So everything happens super quickly. But in a culture that has a fear of missing out, I feel like technology makes us miss out on so many things that life has to offer. We don’t live in the moment anymore.
Emmalou Penrod
Oh definitely. Do you ever feel like it’s alienating us from our emotions? We’re putting on the fake smile or maybe overdramatizing a problem at work, rather than being genuine. How can parents help their teenagers learn how to deal with their emotions? Or, you mentioned example in terms of regulating electronic use. There’s example and we also have cyber bullying. How can a parent help the teen who’s maybe a victim of online bullying?
Pascale Dubé
The thing is, every parent has a different view of what’s good for their children and the child, most of the time, also has a view of what’s best for them. Now, parents and teenagers are their own people. Sometimes there is opposition between what the parent and the kid feel like is good for them. And there’s a big thing and there’s a big problem for parents I feel is that they don’t necessarily know what’s going on, in on media or on the internet with their kids. So if the relationship is a trusting relationship, so if the boundaries are there, if the teenager has their own privacy without having to, you know, fight for it all the time, because it’s also something that teenagers tend to fight for their privacy. If the trust has been set up early on, and if the trust is there, you can always have those discussions with your child, in terms of, how are things going. And if the trust is there, if there’s a problem, just make sure that your kid knows that your door is open. And that there will never be any judgment from you if they come to you with a problem. Teenagers are at a critical place. They have sexual discovery. They are trying new things, some things you may not like. But of course, if the judgment comes first, then you make sure that the communication line is broken between you and your teenager. So delay your judgment. Yeah
Emmalou Penrod
First you’re sending this message of love and support. I believe in you. I trust you. And then you can express some concern.
Pascale Dubé
I think so I think if trust isn’t there, well, first, trust is a two way street. So if you want your kid to trust you, you have to trust your kid. And you have to make sure that they know that you trust them. You can have fair warning, of course. But if the trust has been established, and is there and the communication line is not broken, then expressing concern will only come and you can express it. It comes from a place of love.
Emmalou Penrod
Yes.
Pascale Dubé
There is no judgment. The judgment is I think is the biggest issue between teenagers and parents. Teenagers sometimes feel judged by their parents.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah.
Pascale Dubé
Because they are. So yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
Well, it also sounds like it doesn’t just start in their teen years. This is something you’re establishing when your child is very young. I remember my daughter, as as her children were growing. And she would explain to them when they were very young, like five or six years old, when they start getting on computers, on the network. And explaining, “If you go to someone else’s house, I need to know where you are. I need to know what houses you’re going to. So I need to know what websites you’re going to.” And establishing it then. It’s you’re loving and caring for your child. And then you build on that as they get older. They may become more independent. And when you say, “Trust your children,” that doesn’t mean you let them do what they want to do. You’ve established boundaries. You’ve made it clear the standard of the house or however it’s presented. There needs to be some communication over here are the boundaries. When these boundaries are violated, then this needs to happen.
Pascale Dubé
Exactly. I think it’s another thing that teenagers, you know, they tend to try to push the envelope and push you and see and test where the limits are. Because that’s where the development is, is pushing them towards, you know, they want to be their own person. They want to make their own decisions. They want to be independent from you. That’s what they’re looking for. But independence comes with responsibilities. So if they’re not responsible for their actions, which means if they don’t accept consequences for their actions, they will never learn to be their own person. And I used to coach people in a business setting. And it’s the same thing for managers and leaders. There are micro managers, and there are leaders. What you want to be is to be the leader in the life of your child, is to empower them to make the right decisions, to assume the consequences of their actions. And if the consequences don’t come from outside the home, then the consequences must come from inside the home. But you have to communicate them prior to the action. So to have the discussion about for instance, I’m going to give you an example, if a child wants to, I don’t know, go to a party. It’s COVID. So parties are not super popular right now. But they will come back.
Emmalou Penrod
Yes, yes.
Pascale Dubé
With a vengeance probably. So if your teenager wants to go to a party, then just make sure that they know what the boundaries are. They know what the rules are, you allow them to go on to make their decisions out there. But just make sure that they know what the consequences will be if they overstep or if they don’t respect the rules that you’ve put out. But you can negotiate. It’s also a time when you’re a teenager, and you’ve got a teenager, and you’re a parent, negotiating the terms will become super important. And as they grow older and are more empowered and are more responsible, then you’re going to leave them with more freedom, with more autonomy. And that’s what making a responsible adult is, you have to teach them responsibility throughout their life.
Emmalou Penrod
And I think it’s very helpful to keep this long term goal in mind, as you parent, to keep thinking, remembering your goal is to raise an independent adult. And eventually your child should be able to make all decisions without you.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
And you still want that communication, of course, but I loved your analogy with business leadership. There’s the micromanager, and everyone knows what it’s like to have that kind of a boss. And then there’s the leader.
Pascale Dubé
What I’ve observed in my years of coaching managers is that basically, if you want to have disempowered, unmotivated employees, put them with a micromanager. And the same goes with teenagers. If you’re a parent that’s really into small things, thinking micro, who wants to keep them being kids because you’re insecure, then, you know, don’t be surprised if your teenager doesn’t have or doesn’t show any motivation.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah, yeah. And is still living with you when they’re 35.
Pascale Dubé
That’s another thing. Yeah.
Emmalou Penrod
But yet, how heartbreaking to me, that is so sobering to think of an attempt to take someone’s autonomy. I mean, really, it’s a form of taking away their life, if you’re raising them to be so dependent on you, or, in some way, sending the message that they are unable to make decisions for themselves and must rely on you. That is a serious consequence. And I think parents really don’t want to go there. I think they know they want what’s best for their teenager, what’s best for their child.
Pascale Dubé
As we said, parents do the best they can. And, you know, parents are imperfect. And it’s also something that I think when we grow up teenagers is also the time when you realize that your parents are not perfect. And this imperfection also makes you question their authority, because you know, are they really better than I am? And so this confrontation comes, and it’s healthy.
Emmalou Penrod
Very healthy.
Pascale Dubé
Also healthy is for the parent to show that you know what? You’re right. You know, I assume the fact that I’m not perfect, that I don’t know everything, that I can learn things from my teenager. Your teenager will will teach you so much about yourself.
Emmalou Penrod
You’re opening this dialogue. You’re learning from your teenager. I like the way you use the word negotiating. You’re being open and honest about your concerns, how you care for your teenager, what you want for them. You’re listening carefully and inviting them to be completely open about their concerns, their desires for themselves.
Pascale Dubé
And they will tell you what their boundaries are. You know, if you’re listening carefully to what they’re saying, they are expressing sometimes. Sometimes teenagers are super in opposition, you know, they’re opposing you any way they can, and they are confrontational. But the fact they are confrontational, there’s an information there. So yes, their reaction is very explosive. There’s something that’s bothering them that you have to make sure you address with them.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah, you’re right. You’re right. It is giving you information about them. And I don’t know if this is what you had in mind, but I’m thinking of another conundrum. Parents typically will set a time limit of this much screen time. And then in the pandemic, when the children can’t go out, can’t go to a party or hang out with friends or to school. Suddenly, those time limits on screen time had to become more flexible.
Pascale Dubé
Yeah, that’s right. I think COVID showed us where our limitations were, as a society. It showed us where our weaknesses were, as well. And when we can go out and meet other people and have a social life outside of the home, and it’s been hard on parents, too, it’s not only been hard on teenagers, you know, parents, they’ve been overwhelmed. There was a mix between professional life and personal life that was really hard to handle. And you can see it two ways, you can see it as a hard challenge, or you can seize an opportunity. Now, what kind of opportunity was there during COVID? Well, perhaps you have to rely more on your imagination. You had to rely more on your creativity to connect. You had to find new ways to entertain yourself or entertain your family. You know, because the cell of the family was in the social life in the social cell was so much smaller. You have to find new ways to communicate. So some people were perhaps more creatively disposed, were probably more able to make the transition and still be able to limit screen time. But there’s a fatigue with screens. And perhaps there’s another opportunity post COVID that people will so tired of screens, that they might go out more, you know, it’s always a balance.
Emmalou Penrod
Yeah, I think it’s safe to say that with all of the zoom, we usually call them zoom meetings. People are just done. They don’t want to get in front of a computer again. And what parent hasn’t had a child disrupt a business zoom meeting? invariably, they’re going to walk through the room or come in with a question, even teenagers. And I’ve heard another guest I interviewed, explain, even if that zoom meeting is an interview for the dream job of your life, are you going to make a better impression, if you say, “Just a moment, I need to take care of something. I’ll be right back.” Or if you turn and yell at your child, or your teen?
Pascale Dubé
Exactly, the way you present yourself. That’s another thing that comes with technology. I think we developed a new skill set when it comes to presentation, because of social media and because of COVID. But we also took a peek in the lives of our co workers.
Emmalou Penrod
You couldn’t separate home and work. Home and work were no longer separated.
Pascale Dubé
Exactly. And I think, to some extent, maybe relationships in businesses or relationships and families were actually tightened because we were with each other, so close together. And we had only these people to interact with. So we had to deal with conflict. When we are working and having a social life outside and the kids are not home or the kids are, I don’t know, playing baseball and they’re having
Emmalou Penrod
At school.
Pascale Dubé
Exactly, when everyone is like having their own social circle. Sometimes we don’t address conflicts or we don’t address problems. We don’t address problems at home. And COVID made it mandatory to address those things or those issues that we were facing at home that sometimes were just brushed under the rug.
Emmalou Penrod
And I love that you’ve had the background in business, because you see a lot of those dynamics again. Parents are managers, supervisors, with the difference that they have a long term interest and the love and devotion for their children of course, but again, they want them to succeed. They want them to progress. So when you work with families, do you work just with parents? Do you work with the whole family?
Pascale Dubé
Usually, I will go back a little more again, on my story. I used to work with teenagers in summer camps. And I really, really loved the teenagers. I worked with four and five years old. I found them to be too small and not interactive. And often when I came into 10 years old and older, those were my people. I really loved working with them. But I feel like teenagers, they have so many possibilities, and they’re their brains are still plastic, you know, they can learn super fast. I think it’s harder for parents to change. They need to change because the world is evolving so fast, and their children will face challenges that we have no clue now, the extent of the challenges that their kids will face. And I think it makes a lot of parents very anxious. They want to make sure that their teen is equipped to face those challenges that will come. So I prefer to work with parents because I feel like my coaching will help them more and impact the teenagers. If I work on the teenagers, they of course, they do learn super fast, and they learn super quickly. But the relationship with a parent may not change. I think changes must come from the parent first. So that’s why I work more with parents. But I also assess if there’s a problem between the parent and the teenager, I would want to talk to the teenager to see what their point of view is as well, because you want to have the whole picture if you want to do an intervention.
Emmalou Penrod
And it’s a system. And as you said, they interact. And you can get one part of the system to change. But if the other part doesn’t, it’s too easy to fall back into old patterns. I love that systemic approach, where you’re, it sounds like in cases you can work with both the parents and the teenagers, and the focus being on communication. And we think oh, well, that sounds easy. You know, it’s easy to talk. But it is much more complex than that.
Pascale Dubé
Yes, it is. You know, and I’ve worked in so many different industries. I worked in cinema. And there was a saying, “It’s not because you own a computer, that you can write a screenplay.” It’s the same thing with communications. You have a mouth. You have two ears. Use them properly. Because communications is more about listening than talking.
Emmalou Penrod
I like that. I love it. All right. Any other thoughts? We want to wrap up on technology?
Pascale Dubé
Yes. Well, you mentioned limiting the screen time. As you said in COVID, parents kind of let it go a little bit. Now things are going to begin to reopen. I don’t think it will be an issue because I believe that children will be so happy to see their friends that it might not be as big an issue as we think we will face.
Emmalou Penrod
Just going outside is big stuff!
Pascale Dubé
And actually seeing and you know, meeting and touching each other and just you know, seeing the full body not only the face, that’s another thing. It’s a good concern for parents to have. When it comes to sleep. I know that putting a cap or a curfew on screen is probably the best thing you could do for your child’s health. Because sleep is super important when you’re a teenager. You grow up fast, your hormones are out of whack. Your brain needs time to recover and assimilate what you’ve learned throughout the day. Sleep is a big big, big, big big issue when it comes to health even in adults and teenagers is even more. So if there’s one thing or one takeaway you have to implement at home is to put a curfew, a cap on your child’s screen.
Emmalou Penrod
No, no screen time after, what is it? I’ve heard it recommended two hours before you go to bed or,
Pascale Dubé
Oh well they say that there’s the light, the blue light. There were actually researchers at Stanford, between 10pm and 4am. If you see blue light in your eyes, it can disrupt your whole system.
Emmalou Penrod
Really!
Pascale Dubé
So at least at 10pm, shut down all the screen in the house, yeah,
Emmalou Penrod
That is good to know. So 10pm, blue light out.
Pascale Dubé
Yes, exactly. Out! Turn off your devices. And that’s good for parents to turn off your computers. Turn off the TV if you can and turn off your phone at 10pm.
Emmalou Penrod
Awesome. All right. So I love this. And next time we’re going to get into strategies to use when you’re communicating with your teen. I’m really looking forward to that. Because I know there are a lot of parents who would love to communicate with their teen, but their teen, they just can’t get their teen to talk. That’s the complaint. How do you get them to talk? So that’ll be great. Thank you so much. We’ll talk about that next time. All right, Pascale. Thank you. You have a great day.
Pascale Dubé
You too.